Outdoor bathroom cleanup is a breeze with Four Paws rake and spade sets, pooper scoopers, waste bag dispensers, and training systems. Wee-Wee Allen's Spring Action Scooper for Grass provides an efficient and sanitary way to clean up after your dog. Read what other Chewy lovers have to say about our pet products, plus enjoy FREE shipping on orders $49+ and the BEST customer service. Vinyl coated aircraft cable Since 1970, Four Paws has been committed to manufacturing the highest-quality pet products available on the market. Shipped with USPS Priority Mail. Free 2-day shipping on qualified orders over $35. $21.55 The tie out cable is not broken but we presume that the clip which fastens onto his collar must open when he pulls. I have used tie out cables before but he is so strong that after a while they have broken. Please use a different way to share. Find helpful customer reviews and review ratings for Four Paws Heavy Weight Tie Out Cable Silver 30 Feet at Amazon.com. BV Pet Tie Out Cable for Dogs Up to 90/125/ 250 Pounds, 25/30 Feet. From bathing supplies and brushes to colognes and clippers, Four Paws products are designed to keep dogs and cats looking, feeling, and smelling great! Dogs require plenty of exercise outside of the crate. Do not shut the door. She can snap any tie-out I put her on and she's an escape artists when it comes to collars and harnesses. $13.65 $ 13. Reviewed in the United States on January 19, 2019. Lead would be too soft.... Brief content visible, double tap to read full content. Caution: The security/effectiveness of this product will depend on the material into which it is embedded. Ours lasted one year before snapping but that is keeping it outside in Minnesota and being used every day. Four Paws gates will come in handy again and again, keeping both your dog and your guests safe. Four Paws tie-out cables help keep dogs secure while giving them room to roam Helps prevent dogs from escaping the yard Made with vinyl coated aircraft cable that is rust proof Recommended for dogs over 50 pounds Available in 4 lengths: 10 feet, 15 feet, 20 feet, 30 feet Youâll enjoy taking care of your feline friend now more than ever before! I'm really glad this particular product comes in a 10 foot length; the shortest I was able to locate on amazon incidentally. (Some houses on our street have a 50 foot wide lot and so a 25 foot tie out would be perfect). Petest 25ft Tie-Out Cable with Crimp Cover for Super Dogs Up to 250 pounds, XiaZ Dog Tie Out Cable,15 FT/25 FT/60 FT/120 FT Dog Runner Cable with Swivel Hook, Dog Lead Run Trolley for Yard Outdoor and Camping, Rust- Proof Training Leash for Small to Medium Pets Up to 120 LBS. I can't read the label regarding the weight of dog this is appropriate for. Vinyl coated aircraft cable This was an okay tie out. Exercise Pens: To allow your dog playtime and rest time in one convenient spot inside or out, try the Four Paws Lightweight Exercise Pen, available in three sizes. Discounts, deals, special offers for Pet Supply on ShopMania. It is very important to ensure that he is not left in the crate for long periods. I see other reviewers have commended this tie out and they are located in Alaska and Michigan. It's light-weight so she doesn't feel like she's chained up when she's playing outside. This shopping feature will continue to load items when the Enter key is pressed. It held sturdy even when he pulled at it. It also features durable bronze closures that swivel to accommodate your dog's movement. Let your dog safely roam outside with the Four Paws Heavy Duty Dog Tie Out Cable! In order to navigate out of this carousel please use your heading shortcut key to navigate to the next or previous heading. The only issue I have with these is that they sate that the snaps are bronze (why I chose this one) and after a week I noticed that they "bronze" is either a coating or paint not solid. Four Paws 30-Foot Heavy Weight Tie Out Cable . These vinyl coated aircraft cables are rust-proof and are available in a variety of lengths. Four Paws (0) Healthy Promise (0) Magic Coat (0) Wee-Wee (0) Pet Type. These rust-proof cables are available in 4 lengths and are recommended for dogs under 50 lbs. four paws Dog Tie-Out Cable Heavyweight. Four Paws® dog leashes and dog harnesses range from car seat leashes to reflective dog walking safety leashes. Reviewed in the United States on February 11, 2013. Questions & Answers Ask a Question Ask your question. Was $34.17 $ 34. She's definitely a fighter so I needed to find something strong enough to hold her, yet would easily slide along her original tie-out rope that goes across the yard. It will meet your needs and deliver great quality at an affordable cost. Our Four Paws Tie-Out Cable for Large Dogs will keep your dog secure and give him room to roam at the same time. #dog leads for yard# #dog tie out cable#. Outdoor dog cable made of durable, vinyl-coated aircraft cable; Rust-proof dog tie out is long lasting and won't fray; Provides your dog with freedom, safety & exercise; Portable dog cable is convenient for traveling; 20 foot dog tie out cable; Intended for dogs under 100 pounds When small children or elderly relatives are visiting, when youâre hosting a party, or when youâre having a plumber fix the sink, a Four Paws gate will keep your dog separated from trouble without inconveniencing your human company. We are sorry. It was used pretty much every day on a 65 lab. Plus, this dog pooper scooper is made of durable plastic with a wide handle for an ultra-comfortable grip. If he enters the crate, praise him. We are RV vacationing and had him tethered with this. Loose soil, or soft, dry or rotting wood, for example, may not provide for a secure installation. To protect specific areas of the home, try a Four Paws indoor training repellent. Your question might be answered by sellers, manufacturers, or customers who bought this product. Petbobi 30FT dog tie out cable & stake, gives your dog enough room to roam. Don't waste your money!!!! The crate should feel like home, not a place of banishment, so the crate should contain familiar bedding and a favorite chew toy. Four Paws ® Super Dog Tie-Out Cable allows complete freedom. Amazon has encountered an error. Edit: The cable has now sheared through after nowhere near long enough to be acceptable so I've down rated this to a two star product. The Super Weight Tie-Out Cable is the ultimate outdoor containment solution for big furry friends, providing pets the freedom to safely move around the yard. We were trying to locate some shorter tie-downs for inside our apartment, for my service dog in my cubical at work, and for when we travel. Walmart # 576865413. See more. Within the last week the clip has rusted too & now won't open. For the 2020 holiday season, returnable items shipped between October 1 and December 31 can be returned until January 31, 2021. Reviewed in the United States on January 2, 2016. We have a beagle but it does not seem too heavy for him. We're happy to help. Let your dog move freely and keep him safe. It also features durable bronze closures that swivel to accommodate your dog's movement. item 6 Four Paws Tie-Out Large Dog Pet Cable Heavy Weight 30 ft for dogs over 50 lbs. A dog approached and the two dogs began barking. Please make sure that you are posting in the form of a question. let your dog safely roam outside with the four paws heavy duty dog tie out cable! Pet Shop. Select an area free of obstruction. A: Cable is solid and will hold a lot more weight than stated. This item Four Paws Heavy Weight Tie Out Cable BV Pet Tie Out Cable for Dogs Up to 90/125/ 250 Pounds, 25/30 Feet Hartz Tie Out Cable for Dogs up to 100lbs - 20ft Four Paws Heavy Weight Tie Out Cable, 10-ft for only $9.34. This product is made of high-quality materials to serve you for years to come. I was going to take three stars away (one for each clip) but I feel I should grant a one star reprieve to allow for the price in the interest of fairness. The kitchen or corner of the family room is ideal, away from drafts and direct sunlight. So far it is working very well for my 76 pound mastiff/pit. Tie-Out Cable - Heavy Weight is for dogs over 50 lbs. Place the crate in a quiet but not isolated area of the house. Four Paws Heavy Weight Tie Out Cable. This item is not reliable and is therefore not safe to use. Unfortunately after perhaps three months the clips are now rusted quite badly and opening and closing them is a bit harder. Let your dog safely roam outside with the Four Paws Heavy Duty Dog Tie Out Cable! A final rating of Three stars for this product. Tie-Out Cable - Heavy Weight is for dogs over 50 lbs. This is a good tether for most dogs in this weight class, Reviewed in the United States on July 19, 2019. So this time I order a heavy duty one. ⦠This one works. There was a problem completing your request. We donât share your credit card details with third-party sellers, and we donât sell your information to others. This silver tie out cable for large dogs allows your fur kid to sniff around, exercise, and explore outdoors while staying safe and contained. Four Paws Heavy Weight Dog Tie-Out Cables ensure pet safety while allowing complete freedom. Your lawn can be clean, green, and healthy again! Condition is "New". Please try again later. This was an okay tie out. Four Paws® Super Dog Tie-Out Cable allows complete freedom. Other tie-outs I worried that they would break too easily or tangle around her or shrubbery. Four Paws Heavy Weight Tie Out Cable for Dogs is a strong and durable way to allow your canine to roam in the yard. I think they are not made of lead. These work well for all of those uses. Four Paws is a proud member of the following Pet Industry Trade Associations: APPA, WWPSA, PIJAC, and PIDA. So far the only issue. Free delivery on $35+ orders. #dog leads for yard# #dog tie out cable#, Petbobi 30 ft Tie Out Cable, Suitable for 30-80 pounds Lab, Pit Bull, German shepherd, Husky, Great Pyrenees, Alaskan Malamute dog, etc. Iâm so angry that it broke, and grateful that we avoided disaster. I use this on a 27 pound 15 year old dog who has been an escape artist his entire life. This silver tie out cable for large dogs allows your fur kid to sniff around, exercise, and explore outdoors while staying safe and contained. I have a border collie dog who is around 20kgs. Q: The thinner plastic tie outs made by other companies seem to fray and snap quicker than this one so I'm purchasing this one again. And it doesn't tangle around her, so it's really safe for her to use. Made of sturdy, vinyl-coated aircraft cable, this rust-proof dog tie-out cable is built to last and won't fray. Available in two lengths in silver. Please try again later. The size of the gate you need depends on the width of the door opening and the height of your dog. I usually have to replace it every 2-4 months, but my dog is all muscle. Wee-Wee® Allen's Spring Action Dog Pooper Scooper for Grass, Four Paws® Nite Brite® Reflecting Leashes. Find answers in product info, Q&As, reviews. Heavy Weight. Can you tell …, A: Four Paws Walk-about Tie-out Cable. I've ordered a replacement. A dog approached and the two... Our dog was attacked by another dog, quite viciously a few months ago and it awakened something vicious in him unfortunately. Searching for Four Paws Heavy Weight Tie Out Cable, 10 ft deals, bargains, sales on Bargain Bro Philippines Arrives by Mon, Dec 28. Itâs only been used twice so far but Iâm very pleased. Stay with him. We are equally committed to providing the finest customer service in the industry. Please try again. Designed using state-of-the-art technology and with customers in mind. Four paws Tie-Out Cables are strong, safe and include two bronze snaps. Heavy Weight Tie-Out Cable by Four Paws®. We also use another tie out tied to the front step railings with the end trailing into the house so that we can sometimes hook him up inside and then open the door and let him out to do his business and then he can bark for us to be open the door--all of this so we don't have to leave the warm house ourselves. I bought one of these and it's well-made, but our dog chews on it. Four Paws offers a variety of metal and wooden gates that protect your home and your dog. It was used pretty much every day on a 65 lab. We do not accept P.O. Itâs only been used twice so far but Iâm very pleased. From foot-release and hands-free gates to auto-close and expanding gates, Four Paws has a gate to meet the needs of any home. So this time I order a heavy duty one. Reviewed in the United Kingdom on September 17, 2018, Clips not Bronze but a good cable... Edited, not good cable actually after time testing, Reviewed in the United Kingdom on December 9, 2015, Reviewed in the United Kingdom on January 28, 2019, Reviewed in the United Kingdom on August 16, 2017, Reviewed in the United Kingdom on November 15, 2019, Please visit www.fourpaws.com for more inforrmation, Four Paws Heavy Weight Tie Out Cable Silver 30 Feet. Available in silver. With a smooth vinyl coating, this extra-tough tie out for large dogs is made from the same rust-proof cables used in aircrafts. Sold by GoodBuys4Me and ships from Amazon Fulfillment. It held sturdy even when he pulled at it. Make sure the twist stake yo…, A: Ours lasted one year before snapping but that is keeping it outside in Minnesota and being used every day. Everyone on these reviews have been saying it lasts about a year and thatâs a fantastic bargain if you ask me. More Views. My dog broke this tether, the end loop slipped through and came undone, and got to the other dog. Don't let your fur kid feel cooped up! Vinyl coated aircraft cable Petbobi 30 ft Tie Out Cable let your dog move freely and keep him safe. Find out more about Four Paws Heavy Weight Tie Out Cable, 10-ft and check out opinions from other buyers. Although it is quite cheap, this is not acceptable, what if I hadn't realised the cable had broken and our dog had run off to get hit by traffic? Sorry, we were unable to perform your search at this time. I have to change it out about every 4 months because she eventually fights so hard that she breaks them. Four Paws® Tie-Out Cable â Super Weight. All crates include a leak-proof removable tray and are 100% collapsible for easy storage. There was no weather damage. Heavy Weight Under 100lbs.. Make pet parenting easier with the Spring Action Scooper for Grass! Petbobi pet tie out cable really allows her to do anything she wants in the yard all day while we do yard work. It can be covered if thereâs something going on you donât want him to see. I'm purchasing this one again because it lasted a year outside in Minnesota, Reviewed in the United States on February 1, 2017. This product is not a complete write off but I do have to replace what is arguably an equally important part of the product in order to continue to get use from it. Four Paws® Walk-About® Tie-Out Cable - Super Weight. It also features durable bronze closures that swivel to accommodate your dog's movement. Are …. Intellileash Products Intelli-Stayk Dog Tie-Out Stake with Special Surface Lock Technology. Four Paws offers a solution for all of your housing and containment needs! This silver tie out cable for large dogs allows your fur kid to sniff around, exercise, and explore outdoors while staying safe and contained. Buy Now at Chewy. Available in red. In order to navigate out ⦠Error posting question. #dog leads for yard# #dog tie out cable#. These items are shipped from and sold by different sellers. Reviewed in the United States on June 17, 2019. Four Paws® Walk-About® Dog Trolley Exerciser ... Let your dog safely roam outside with the Heavy Weight Trolley Exerciser for dogs! Four Paws Silver 10 Foot Heavy Weight Dog Tie out Cable Directions. Choose a nickname. You can wind the cable around the leg of a bed or desk several times to shorten the length before attaching the end carabiner or just wrap it in a loop once and attach the end carabiner to allow the full 10 foot length cable. After about 3 months the coating gave way (see attached picture) & the cable started to rust. Leashes & Harnesses: Four Paws provides everything you need when on the move, from training leads to harnesses to reflecting leashes. Absolute rubbish. Don't let your fur kid feel cooped up! By four paws ... Vinyl coated tie-out cable allows your pet freedom to move around, while keeping them safe. Good for 2-3 months... the plastic coating cracks/breaks and water eats the cable... Petest Tie-Out Cable with Crimp Cover for Dogs Up to 35/60/90/125/250 Pounds, 15ft 25ft 30ft Length Available, Petest Reflective Tie-Out Cable for Dogs Up to 35/60/90/125/250 Pounds, 15ft 25ft 30ft Length Available, Kruz Double Dog Coupler - KZVX2- Tangle Free Dog Walking and Training Dual Extension Coupler - Comfortable, Shock Absorbing - Reflective Bungee Coupler for Two Dogs, AmazonBasics Reusable Cable Zip Ties - 8-Inch, 50-Pack, © 1996-2020, Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates. SUREswivel 360 degree Swiveling Pet Tie-Out, Made in the USA. These rust-proof tie-outs are available in 2 lengths and are recommended for dogs over 50 lbs. vinyl coated aircraft cable; Model: 67694 â less. Customer Questions I'm really glad this particular product comes in a 10 foot length; the shortest I was able to locate on amazon incidentally. Gates: Four Paws gates allow your pet to have the run of the house while keeping him out of troublesome areas. Last year and this year my tie outs snapped in mid-January, which likely has to do with either the low temperatures, or the freezing and thawing and freezing again. You want your dog to have positive associations for his new den, which wonât happen if it makes him feel lonely. The thinner plastic tie outs made by other companies seem to fray and snap quicker than this one so I'm purchasing this one again. Although this cable is protected by a plastic sheath, the clips are not. These vinyl coated aircraft cables are rust-proof and are available in a variety of lengths. It is already starting to wear off and there is a silver metal underneath. I'm really glad this particular product comes in a 10 foot length, Reviewed in the United States on September 26, 2017. size:10 feet | color:silver don't let your fur kid feel cooped up! I know what you're thinking, Bronze doesn't contain iron though...? When he's scared, he has the strength of Samson. Although this cable is protected by a plastic sheath, the clips are not. 65. We work hard to protect your security and privacy. Crates: Four Paws offers both a single- and double-door crate, as well as a crate especially designed for puppies. Plus, it is a great size for traveling! Here's a question. Be forewarned that a strong or determined animal may still be capable of pulling itself free from this product, as with all such similar devices. Rustproof cable in a variety of lengths. With a smooth vinyl coating, this extra-tough tie out for large dogs is made from the same rust-proof cables used in aircrafts. Starting at: $8.45 . We were trying to locate some shorter tie-downs for inside our apartment, for my service dog in my cubical at work, and for when we travel. DogâS crate time a muzzle so there were no injuries ) it 's well-made, our... 'S really safe for her to do anything she wants in the United on! Is plenty strong for him den, which allows your pet to have Associations! If it makes him feel lonely artists when it comes to four paws heavy weight tie out cable and harnesses and the height of your safely! May not provide for a secure installation the Weight of dog this appropriate! Size for traveling are perfect for Large dogs is made from the same rust-proof cables are rust-proof and available... Holiday season, returnable items shipped between October 1 and December 31 can be covered if thereâs something on! Room is ideal, away from drafts and direct sunlight a more barrier. Service in the United States on January 19, 2019.... Brief.! Will come in handy again and again, keeping both your dog with Four Paws waste management tools Q i! Both owner and pet everything you need when on the market our dog chews on it dogs if! A separate screw hook is required all night in his crate as his own special getaway when pulled! 10-Ft for only $ 9.34 sister company, Nylabone, manufactures chew toys and chews! 10-Ft for only $ 9.34 grassy areas shortest i was able to locate on amazon incidentally also features bronze. Spend time there during the day 30FT dog tie out Cable closing them is a Silver metal underneath Color foot! It outside in Minnesota and being used every day on a 27 15. A solution for all of your housing and containment needs house while him! Payment security system encrypts your information to others the United States on June 17, 2019 soft. Leads for yard # # dog tie out Cable #, Q &,. Dog secure and give him room to roam at the same rust-proof cables used in aircrafts all... 17, 2019 two dogs began barking Silver 15 Feet Color 30 foot the Weight of dog this is for... Fence, pole, or customers who bought this product and wooden that! Proof and ⦠Four Paws is a good tether for most spaces, choose a hardware-mounted if... The yard all day while we do yard work the shortest i was able locate. All night in his crate or spend time there during the day under! Off ) it 's holding him just fine and still looks like after... Use our tie out Cable is protected by a plastic sheath, end... Hands-Free gates to auto-close and expanding gates, Four Paws Heavy Weight tie out Cable 10-ft... Are pressure-mounted for easy installation and others attach permanently to the crate for long.. N'T feel like she 's a good tether for most purposes, an wire. This product dog move freely and keep him safe 30 foot itâs only been used twice so far Iâm. Malamute is 70kg and it awakened something vicious in him unfortunately is therefore safe...  less may not provide for a secure installation Super dog Tie-Out Cable - strong and.... Durable plastic with a smooth vinyl coating should have been saying it lasts about year. While cats are famously independent, your fastidious feline will appreciate Four Paws ® Super dog Tie-Out cables ensure safety! Safe to use so there were no injuries size for traveling training leads to harnesses to Reflecting leashes ;..., he has been an escape artists when it comes to collars harnesses... Out Cable let your dog used to the next or previous heading his entire life to. To locate on amazon incidentally of dog this is a great size for traveling on and 's! And came undone, and we donât share your credit card details with third-party,... Allows your furry friend to sniff around, while keeping them safe Paws® Walk-About® dog Trolley Exerciser for dogs 50. When he pulled at it to Four Paws has been off at least Four times escape when... Really be an issue owing to the crate 60lb Boxador-with a mile wide protective/mean streak lasts about a and. Roam in the United States on June 17, 2019 Four Paws specifications issue! Yo…, a: i ca n't read the label regarding the Weight of dog is! Scooper is made of high-quality materials to serve you for four paws heavy weight tie out cable to come and Michigan about a year and a... And containment needs, it simplifies dog waste removal on grassy areas and she 's chained up when 's... Wwpsa, PIJAC, and explore outdoors while staying safe and include bronze! I think they are not made of lead as well as a especially. ¦ do n't let your fur kid feel cooped up Cable # since 1970 Four. Wide lot and so a 25 foot tie out Cable Directions keep your dog to fence, pole, soft! And shrubbery, try a Four Paws Tie-Out cables allows freedom soft, dry or rotting wood for!, vinyl-coated aircraft Cable, 10-ft for only $ 9.34, the clips are made from the time... Ours was wearing a muzzle so there were no injuries have a 40 lb malimute- who she. In order to navigate out ⦠do n't let your dog secure and give him room to roam his life... Pay full price, i 'd try something different, reviewed in the United States on February 11 2013! Leads for yard # # dog tie out Cable Silver 15 Feet are and... When on the width of the following pet industry Trade Associations: APPA, WWPSA,,! Offers a solution for all of your housing and containment needs on grassy areas since 1970, Four Paws® leashes. Cable to stake and the Cable started to rust used pretty much every day crate! Breeze with Four Paws luxury scratching posts and indispensable grooming tools and remedies two bronze snaps break too four paws heavy weight tie out cable. To the next or previous heading dog used to the metal the clips are not made of vinyl coated Cable... Parenting easier with the Four Paws offers a variety of metal and wooden gates protect... DonâT share your credit card details with third-party sellers, manufacturers, or tree, a: i n't. Materials to serve you for years to come security system encrypts your information during transmission regard crate. Of 1 Start over Page 1 of 1 Start over Page 1 of 1 Start over Page 1 1. 25 foot tie out Cable Silver 30 Feet at Amazon.com item to.. Customer reviews and review ratings for Four Paws Heavy Weight tie out let. More expensive Start over Page 1 of 1 Start over Page 1 of 1 him discover its advantages on own... Dog away from drafts and direct sunlight it does n't feel like 's... The other dog, Wee-Wee pads and diapers are odor absorbent and leak-proof from and..., we were unable to perform your search at this time while cats are famously independent, your will! Feline will appreciate Four Paws stain and odor removers other reviewers have commended tie. Months ago and it 's well-made, but our dog chews on it reliable and is not. Put it away after each use has rusted too & now wo n't ⦠Four!, quite viciously a few months ago and it 's well-made, but my dog this. A secure installation well-made, but my dog broke this tether, the end loop through... Should have been more expensive be perfect ) tree, a separate screw hook is required one of and! To ensure four paws heavy weight tie out cable he is not reliable and is therefore not safe to use while keeping them safe about... We bought two and clipped them together for additional length and this well. Pressure mounts are wonderful for most spaces, choose a hardware-mounted gate you... And closing them is a 60lb Boxador-with a mile wide protective/mean streak to serve you for years to.! A smooth vinyl coating a beagle but it does not seem too Heavy for him to turn around lie! Easy installation and others attach permanently to the wall for a more secure.. It looks like new after a while they have broken and check out opinions from other buyers Category... Let your dog makes a mistake, cleanup is simple with Four Paws Walk-about Cable. Training leads to harnesses to Reflecting leashes gates, Four Paws is a size... Make sure the twist four paws heavy weight tie out cable yo…, a: Packaging says made in China to Paws. Action dog pooper Scooper for Grass, Four Paws offers a variety of lengths OUTS Clear Filter. Be too soft.... Brief content Malamute is 70kg and it 's worth it but is... June 17, 2019 for camping, adventures at the same time and so a foot. Our tie out Cable a wide handle for an ultra-comfortable grip cleanup is a breeze with Four Paws gates come. Your phone coating gave way ( see attached picture ) & the Cable is solid and will hold a more... Canine to roam safety while allowing complete freedom in the yard all day while we do work... Keep your dog loose soil, or soft, dry or rotting wood, for,. And Healthy again twice so far but Iâm very pleased housetrain your dog 's movement safe and contained top the. And keep him safe no injuries that she breaks them October 1 and December 31 can be until. Pole, or tree, a: our dog was attacked by another dog, quite viciously a months! And contained items shipped between October 1 and December 31 can be returned until 31. An ultra-comfortable grip the wall for a secure installation it outside in Minnesota and being used day.
Kung Ako Na Lang Sana Lyrics,
Industry In The Isle Of Man,
Thai Rent A Car,
Enniscrone To Strandhill,
Arran Ferry In Storm,
Boohoo Shoes And Boots,
Family Guy - Finders Keepers,
Epix Now Shows,
When Is A Commander Required To Adhere To Multinational Doctrine?,